RX-8 Buying Advice

"JasonStern911" (JasonStern911) 01/07/2015 at 22:25 • Filed to: RX-8 RX8 Rotary Renesis

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I'm sure I will probably get flamed for this by rotary enthusiasts, but a VP at my company apparently has a friend looking to buy an RX-8, and he knew that I previously owned one. This was my response:

Here's my thoughts as a previous owner for you to hopefully pass along to your friend.

Fun facts:

Mazda extended the warranty on the Renesis to 8 years/100k – likely to avoid a class action lawsuit from customers:

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/musa2/…

Mazda intentionally left the RX-8 out of their customer satisfaction surveys:

http://autoweek.com/article/car-ne…

Other helpful links:

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For what it's worth, when my engine failed (04 with under 50k), Reno Mazda Kia said they were replacing about two a month. Elena's (05 with ~70k) still ran when the motor was replaced, but it had low compression. I babied mine (let the engine warm up, frequent 2k oil changes with non-synthetic 5W-30 oil, etc) as I was hoping to get at least 10 years, 100k out of it. The 2004 also had a lot of bad build quality related problems that Elena's 2005 did not suffer from, ranging from small stuff like sun visors cracking to major repairs including a transmission failure that was not covered by the extended warranty. And when they do run, they suffer from poor fuel economy and the motors make very little torque (remember – the RX8 doesn't have twin turbos!).

The main concern is this – you might be able to buy one for $6k due to engine concerns, but should the motor go out, you're looking at $4k for a remanufactured engine, plus the installation costs if you cannot replace the motor yourself:

http://www.pettitracing.com/rx8-engines/

http://www.banzai-racing.com/store/Mazda_Re…

You can probably save money by buying a junkyard or Japanese import motor, but the mileage on the motor is unknown and if it fails, then you're back to where you started from and out either the cost or time for installing it.

One option might be to look for one with a blown motor and see if you can pick the car up for under $2,000. One typically shows up on Craigslist every three months or so. Then, if you replace the motor with a rebuild, you at least know that the motor will probably be fine for 60k miles. If you do go this route, make sure the ECU is flashed with the latest firmware as Mazda tried many software tweaks throughout the RX8's life to try to extend engine life.

That said, the chassis handles amazingly and the brakes are above average in part to the vehicle's low weight. The suicide doors and rear seats are surprisingly practical for a sports car.

Overall, they're cool cars. But I wouldn't own one again. I suggest looking at an Infiniti G35 Coupe if you're looking for a sports car with back seats for under $10k.

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Hopefully that didn't come across as insulting to current owners. From my experience, there were three stages:

* Irrational Rotary love - "Apex seals only fail due to neglect. That's why I'm super anal about oil changes, letting the car warm up, and blipping the throttle to let any unburnt fuel exit the motor before turning it off. I'm almost afraid to own a non-rotary, with all of the moving pieces and all..."

* Irrational Rotary hate - "OMG F'ING APEX SEAL! HOW CAN MAZDA MAKE A RELIABLE ROTARY ENGINE IN THE 80s AND A LESS RELIABLE ENGINE THAN THE 13B-TT IN THE 2000s?!?!?"

* Rationale Rotary tolerance - "Cool cars. I wouldn't own one. But still cool cars."

Jay Lauer > JasonStern911 01/07/2015 at 22:28

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The RX-8 is definitely unreliable. There's no denying that.

Luckily there's kits to put LS1's in them. So there's that.

jsemerica > JasonStern911 01/07/2015 at 22:44

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The series II models (2009+) should be robust, Mazda made a ton of improvements the second time around, including additional oil injection ports. I wouldn't hesitate getting a good used example but probably wouldn't recommend the first series to just anybody. My 2005 has 70k on the original, so far so good!

Takuro Spirit > JasonStern911 01/07/2015 at 22:45

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As a Mazda dealer employee who's life depends on RX-8s (and other Mazdas) breaking and costing lots to repair, I say GO FOR IT.

Shit, we get paid more for warranty parts than customer pay jobs. Sooooo.... yeah. Buy ALL the under 100k RX8s!

Nothing > JasonStern911 01/07/2015 at 22:48

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I had transmission woes with mine, but nothing else mechanical. Engine was strong, never had a lick of issues. Mine was an 04 as well. I really liked mine and would buy another.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > JasonStern911 01/07/2015 at 22:57

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It should be noted that since the rotary is so small and light and has few moving parts, it's the one engine that someone can rebuild themselves in their own garage at half the cost or less:

http://www.atkinsrotary.com/index.php?pag=…

JasonStern911 > jsemerica 01/07/2015 at 23:39

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If you aren't the original owner, check for a blue metal plate attached:

If you have it, the engine is factory remanufactured, which isn't a bad thing - it's less likely to fail. Previous owners, myself included, tend to sell low on them after an engine failure.

JasonStern911 > Takuro Spirit 01/07/2015 at 23:41

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When my girl's RX-8 was replaced, it was due to low compression. While it was bound to fail, the factory warranty was almost up. I thought they were doing it because they knew the fail rate, and were trying to be kind and replace it before an eventual failure. But there is a chance that the failure rates are artificially high due to dealerships taking advantage of the warranty coverage.

JasonStern911 > Nothing 01/07/2015 at 23:42

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Key words being "I had ", "Engine was strong", "Mine was ", "I really like d "... :)

Textured Soy Protein > JasonStern911 01/07/2015 at 23:43

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I like Mazda, but after owning a '99 Miata and then an '06 Speed 6, I'm confident in saying their build quality isn't so hot. It might've improved since then, but my two Mazdas both had their share of annoying quality issues.

03mach1 - Now has a Fiesta ST > JasonStern911 01/07/2015 at 23:45

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When I was looking for my car my dad and I test drove one of these. It handled like it was on rails, it was so much fun. I really liked the noise it made to, it sounded so unique. It was the first manual car I drove. For a few feet, I managed to get going just fine but somehow stalled it when I shifted in to second. Oh, and the Velcro visor kept falling on the drivers side.

But for the reasons you stated I never looked in to them again. Really cool car though. That one was beat up though, 117K miles.

JasonStern911 > jsemerica 01/07/2015 at 23:45

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Also, I forgot to mention the engine revision. But the one the guy was looking at was a 2005. I just copy/pasted the e-mail and forgot to mention that in my original post.

JasonStern911 > 03mach1 - Now has a Fiesta ST 01/07/2015 at 23:47

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The handling was amazing. I actually think I might be faster around a track in one than I would be in my 996. Not that my 996 isn't a more capable vehicle, but it requires a lot more skill to drive fast. My RX-8 was loaded with driver assist goodies and a neutral balance that made it easy to drive fast with less skill.

JasonStern911 > Jay Lauer 01/07/2015 at 23:49

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There weren't kits when I traded mine in, otherwise that might have been an option if I could find a reputable shop to do the swap for a reasonable price.

That said, for anyone considering this, I'd still avoid the 2004s due to first model year break-in problems.

JasonStern911 > Textured Soy Protein 01/07/2015 at 23:52

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I owned a 99 Miata as well for a bit. It was solid during my ownership. But then I only owned it for 2-3 years/10-15k miles, and did so prior to the 100k maintenance being due.

I have no personal experience with the Mazdaspeed6, but all hearsay seems to imply they are fun cars, but they don't take well to modifications and either (or both) the motors and AWD system have an inherently shorter life associated with them than their naturally aspirated, front-wheel drive base chassis.

03mach1 - Now has a Fiesta ST > JasonStern911 01/07/2015 at 23:55

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I think I would be the same way. It just seemed like a really easy and balanced car to drive. It's a shame they are so unreliable (Well, the older ones at least) because I would love to own one.

JasonStern911 > 03mach1 - Now has a Fiesta ST 01/07/2015 at 23:57

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The LSx swap has already been mentioned in this post. While I'd be scared with some of the higher output LSx motors, the chassis can definitely handle LS2/LS6 power. I honestly think that if the motor had been reliable and not cost Mazda a lot of money, Mazda would have likely produced a Mazdaspeed8 that Oppo would covet.

03mach1 - Now has a Fiesta ST > JasonStern911 01/08/2015 at 00:19

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As much as I love V8's, I feel like the rotary is a big part of this car. I'm sure it helped give the car its amazing balance.

But I agree, if it had been reliable enough and Mazda made a Mazdaspeed8, it would be incredible.

Nothing > JasonStern911 01/08/2015 at 00:28

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Then our twins were born, the RX8 did not make for a good baby transporter.

Textured Soy Protein > JasonStern911 01/08/2015 at 00:30

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I didn't have any motor issues. But I did have the clutch slave cylinder go out around 75k miles, and there were a few driveline leaks, mostly around the rear differential.

The interior was rattly as all hell, which I assume is the case with all 1st-gen 6 models, not just the Speed.

It also developed rust problems at far too young of an age. Granted I'm in Wisconsin and we get a lot of snow and road salt here, but plenty of other cars last a whole lot longer here without developing rust.

Takuro Spirit > JasonStern911 01/08/2015 at 00:52

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Mazda tries to control how and when techs can order engines, but its so easy to fake readings, and even when engine replacement is questionable, Mazda just says GO AHEAD 99.9% of the time because they know they have issues and wouldn't have a leg to stand on if someone was denied and called then out.

blakedunc235 > JasonStern911 01/08/2015 at 10:56

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I agree with you on the G35. I got an 06 G35 coupe and I love it. I was also looking at an 07 RX8 but a lot of people told me that they had problems with the ones that they had and I just wanted something sporty with similar power to the 04 mustang gt that I had with back seats and the suicide doors were what appealed to me. But after driving a few then driving a few G35s I changed my mind quick. The sport suspension is one of the few that I can drive it like i stole it. Seriously If someone has never driven one, DO IT! You will have no regrats! Getting a reliable sporty japanese RWD coupe with back seats has become increasingly hard. It was between the G35 and a older BMW for me after looking around. I didnt want another cheap ford/chevy, and I wanted something with more luxury amenities. The G35 came with almost everything except for vented seats. It has aluminum interier trim, smart key, auto dimming rear view mirrors with 3 car garage opener, bluetooth, heated seats, push to start, actual leather, and 8 way seats on the driver side and 6 (or maybe 4) way on the passenger side. I constantly get close to 30 mpg if im on the highway and not hooning it. Id say that the only downside is the premium gas but honestly im only paying 5$ more a tank to fill up than if it had regular unleaded.

JasonStern911 > Nothing 01/08/2015 at 23:32

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I gave plenty of rides to twenty-something women during my RX-8 ownership. But then, I guess they more acted like babies than actually were babies... :)

JasonStern911 > 03mach1 - Now has a Fiesta ST 01/08/2015 at 23:37

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In my opinion, they should have had both - a Renesis motor option and then the 2.3L inline 4 from the Mazda3/Mazda6. With a traditional engine, the car likely would have sold in higher volumes, which in turn could have helped keep costs down hopefully helping lead to a second generation. Even in gutless form, it would have been the closest thing to a BRZ/FR-S during that era...